airline quandry

My wife and I are planning a Kenya-Tanzania safari next summer, but I am a little uncertain about some airline aspects.
I've fairly heavily researched pricing for trips to-from Dulles, since we leave from Baltimore.

Here is what I have found for published rates for 2 people (for theoretical flights as far out as i could go= May 2018):

1. Turkish Air (highly rated) DCA-Istanbul-Kilimanjaro arriving 1 AM; reverse leaving at 5 AM next day(!!) - $7527.44
2. KLM DCA-Amsterdam-Kilimanjaro arriving 7:50 PM; reverse leaving 11:55 PM. - $8746.24
3. Ethiopian Air through Addis Ababa about $12,000

So, my questions are these:
1. Prior blog notes said Ethiopian Air was less expensive but i can't see it from what I researched. Am I missing something?
2. Tauck Air dept. says they will purchase any published fare that i can find even if no contract with that airline. (Interestingly their KLM contract was about $12,000 for 2 people.). Has anyone had a problem getting them to purchase air fare with airline, like Turkish Air, with whom they have no formal contract, and any problem with flight delays or cancellations in that case?
3. I spoke with reservations about staying in the 'day room' that final day (13) until early AM since it is a 5 AM departure the next day and Marie (great as with all Tauck people) called 'there' and they indicated they allow you to stay that late. Has anyone else had that experience, staying late and having a place to stay?
4. Any other flight options?

Finally, on another topic, is Tauck travel insurance as good as getting insurance from Travel Insured which we have normally used? We'd need preexisting which i am told is fine as long as it's purchased at time of booking.

You all have been a great resource. I think i may have to replace the toner from all the info I've copied. LOL

Barry

Comments

  • doctorbj wrote:
    My wife and I are planning a Kenya-Tanzania safari next summer, but I am a little uncertain about some airline aspects.
    I've fairly heavily researched pricing for trips to-from Dulles, since we leave from Baltimore.

    Here is what I have found for published rates for 2 people (for theoretical flights as far out as i could go= May 2018):

    1. Turkish Air (highly rated) DCA-Istanbul-Kilimanjaro arriving 1 AM; reverse leaving at 5 AM next day(!!) - $7527.44
    2. KLM DCA-Amsterdam-Kilimanjaro arriving 7:50 PM; reverse leaving 11:55 PM. - $8746.24
    3. Ethiopian Air through Addis Ababa about $12,000

    So, my questions are these:
    1. Prior blog notes said Ethiopian Air was less expensive but i can't see it from what I researched. Am I missing something?
    2. Tauck Air dept. says they will purchase any published fare that i can find even if no contract with that airline. (Interestingly their KLM contract was about $12,000 for 2 people.). Has anyone had a problem getting them to purchase air fare with airline, like Turkish Air, with whom they have no formal contract, and any problem with flight delays or cancellations in that case?
    3. I spoke with reservations about staying in the 'day room' that final day (13) until early AM since it is a 5 AM departure the next day and Marie (great as with all Tauck people) called 'there' and they indicated they allow you to stay that late. Has anyone else had that experience, staying late and having a place to stay?
    4. Any other flight options?

    Finally, on another topic, is Tauck travel insurance as good as getting insurance from Travel Insured which we have normally used? We'd need preexisting which i am told is fine as long as it's purchased at time of booking.

    You all have been a great resource. I think i may have to replace the toner from all the info I've copied. LOL

    Barry

    What class of service are we talking about?
  • doctorbj wrote:
    My wife and I are planning a Kenya-Tanzania safari next summer, but I am a little uncertain about some airline aspects.
    I've fairly heavily researched pricing for trips to-from Dulles, since we leave from Baltimore.

    Here is what I have found for published rates for 2 people (for theoretical flights as far out as i could go= May 2018):

    1. Turkish Air (highly rated) DCA-Istanbul-Kilimanjaro arriving 1 AM; reverse leaving at 5 AM next day(!!) - $7527.44
    2. KLM DCA-Amsterdam-Kilimanjaro arriving 7:50 PM; reverse leaving 11:55 PM. - $8746.24
    3. Ethiopian Air through Addis Ababa about $12,000

    So, my questions are these:
    1. Prior blog notes said Ethiopian Air was less expensive but i can't see it from what I researched. Am I missing something?
    2. Tauck Air dept. says they will purchase any published fare that i can find even if no contract with that airline. (Interestingly their KLM contract was about $12,000 for 2 people.). Has anyone had a problem getting them to purchase air fare with airline, like Turkish Air, with whom they have no formal contract, and any problem with flight delays or cancellations in that case?
    3. I spoke with reservations about staying in the 'day room' that final day (13) until early AM since it is a 5 AM departure the next day and Marie (great as with all Tauck people) called 'there' and they indicated they allow you to stay that late. Has anyone else had that experience, staying late and having a place to stay?
    4. Any other flight options?

    Finally, on another topic, is Tauck travel insurance as good as getting insurance from Travel Insured which we have normally used? We'd need preexisting which i am told is fine as long as it's purchased at time of booking.

    You all have been a great resource. I think i may have to replace the toner from all the info I've copied. LOL

    Barry
    Regarding Tauck getting tickets for any airline you want to travel on, contracted or not, they do that often for us.
  • edited July 2017
    Tauck wouldn't do Ethiopian for me in 2015.

    You also need to compare apples to apples. When I said in a post a few years ago that Ethiopian was cheaper, I was comparing it to similar flights - Business class, lay flat seats, shortest enroute times, fewest stops and minimal layover times and booking 300+ days out. Anything with the low prices you quoted may have had multiple stops or horrendous layover times. In 2014 the fare was $5332 p/p IAD to JRO + NBO to IAD. The Ethiopian website gives you the total price for both people while many of the other airlines show it as p/p.

    I couldn't get the Tauck K&T page to load for dates so picked a random Sept 2017 departure leaving on Thur (tours used to run Sat - Thur) to arrive around noon Fri- day and a half early. It was nice arriving mid-day and having the next day to tour Arusha National Park.

    I just looked at the Ethiopian website and here is a sample of what I found with those dates- it is now cheaper than when I went!!!!!!!

    Cloud 9 (restricted) (Business Class). Aircraft going over is a 777 with 2-3-2 seating in business and (new) Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with 2-2-2 seating.

    Coming back- 737-900 to ADD and 777 back to Dulles.

    ET 501 Departing IAD at 1100, Thur, 7 Sep 2017/ stop ADD / ET 815 arrive JRO 1255 PM, Fri
    ET 303 departs NBO at 1135, 21 Sep/stop ADD / ET 500 (also stops for fuel only at DUB, no de-plane, slept right through it) arrives IAD 0840.

    The price: $6822.36 FOR TWO!!! ($3411.18 p/p)

  • edited July 2017
    I bought 2 R/T business class tickets on KLM/Delta for $4,400 each on a trip in July. I bought the tickets direct thru Delta website in September 2016 for July 2017 trip. Route of flight is IAD/AMS/JRO outbound and, NBO/AMS/IAD inbound. Noticed KLM has Biz class for about $6K each next May.
  • Thanks for the feedback.

    Regarding Turkish air, i was looking at business class. Sorry i left that out.

    I must note i did quick check for Ethiopian airlines business, based on above but got the following, picking September days more or less at random but two weeks apart since i could not yet book for next summer:


    Flight Details table
    ET 501
    ET 815 Connecting Filght
    Ethiopian Airlines

    Ethiopian Airlines

    IAD (11 Sept)
    11:00
    JRO
    12:55
    Next Day Indicator
    1 (ADD)
    CLOUD 9 DELUXE
    3433.72 USD
    Change flight
    Flight 2: from Nairobi, Kenya (NBO) to Washington-Dulles, United States (IAD) 24 Sep
    Flight Information
    Flight Details table
    ET 305
    ET 500 Connecting Filght
    Ethiopian Airlines

    Ethiopian Airlines

    NBO
    17:40
    IAD
    08:40
    Next Day Indicator
    2 (ADD, DUB)
    CLOUD 9 DELUXE
    3433.46 USD
    Change flight
    Show the fare rules associated with this fare.
    6867.18 USD total per person


    Granted this was Cloud 9 deluxe.

    For Cloud 9 restricted i get the following:

    ET 501
    ET 815 Connecting Filght
    Ethiopian Airlines

    Ethiopian Airlines

    IAD
    11:00
    JRO
    12:55
    Next Day Indicator
    1 (ADD)
    CLOUD 9 RESTRICTED
    2083.72 USD
    Change flight
    Flight 2: from Nairobi, Kenya (NBO) to Washington-Dulles, United States (IAD) 24 Sep
    Flight Information
    Flight Details table
    ET 305
    ET 500 Connecting Filght
    Ethiopian Airlines

    Ethiopian Airlines

    NBO
    17:40
    IAD
    08:40
    Next Day Indicator
    2 (ADD, DUB)
    CLOUD 9 RESTRICTED
    2094.46 USD
    Change flight
    Show the fare rules associated with this fare.
    4178.18 USD total per person

    I'm not sure why the difference from British's note above.
  • edited July 2017
    doctorbj wrote:

    . . . . .For Cloud 9 restricted i get the following:

    ET 501
    ET 815 Connecting Flight . . .

    ET 305
    ET 500 Connecting Flight . . . .

    4178.18 USD total per person

    I'm not sure why the difference from British's note above.

    Are you sure you didn't select ET307 or Deluxe for the return?

    I see no reason to pay for Ethiopian's Cloud 9 (Business) Deluxe. It is the same as paying the higher Delta Business 'refundable fare' to get more liberal changes or cancellations, etc. Everything else, cabin, seats, priority, lounge, etc. is the same. We never do that with Delta or any carrier, just way too expensive! Probably cheaper to buy trip insurance.

    I ran it again just now and get the same $6822.36 for 2 round trip business class (restricted) tickets using actual 2017 Tauck tour dates:

    IAD (ET501) ADD (ET815) JRO outbound on Thursday, 14 Sep 2017
    NBO (ET 305) ADD (ET500) IAD return on Thursday, 28 Sep 2017 (has a brief fuel stop, no de-plane, in Dublin)

    Remember, the time of day and day of the week can make a difference in airfares (see below). Alternate K&T departures (in 2017 and 2018) begin on a Saturday and end on a Thursday*, but you will want to get there at least one day early, that is why I suggest departing the US on Thursday which gets you to Arusha early afternoon on Friday and gives you the afternoon to chill and the next day to tour Arusha National Park, etc. since there are no scheduled tour activities on Day 1.

    *
    I get the same cost ($6822.36) for two r/t tickets on a Monday to Monday tour- dep Mon, 11 Sep rtn Mon, 25 Sep 2017 (actual tour dates: Wed, 13 Sep - Mon, 25 Sep 2017)

    Note, it is more expensive if you choose ET307 / ET500 as your return flights on the dates I used- $4178.18 pp (the amount you came up with) vs $3411.18 pp ($8356.36 vs $6822.36 for two). The layovers in ADD are different, however- 3+05 for ET305/ET500 and only 1+40 for ET307/ET500, but I'd probably accept a 1 hr. 20 min. longer layover to save $1537.
  • Thanks Alan for your update. I did indeed recheck and for a Thursday departure your numbers are in fact correct. For a Monday departure (to start Wednesday with Tauck) we are back to the $8300+ because of increased pricing for the return trip.

    Follow-up questions:
    1. I cannot find anything regarding the Cloud 9 differences on line.

    2. Tauck promises an airline refund if you take their insurance. Can you book with an agent and have Tauck do air and provide insurance?

    3. If we book next August, airline availability will be September at earliest. Does the air get covered if you take the Tauck insurance booking air with them, even if travel agent books the trip?

    4. Most importantly, it appear a large number of passengers are very unhappy with Ethiopian airlines, with chaotic Addis Ababa airport, changed flights, delays, poor cabin and ticketing service. I am very reluctant to book with them, with the possibility that seems to be frequent that connections will not be made timely.

    Thanks for all the help.
  • We always book directly with Tauck. We then do not have to rely on an agent to send us the final paperwork etc and there is no middleman.
  • edited July 2017
    doctorbj wrote:
    Thanks Alan for your update. I did indeed recheck and for a Thursday departure your numbers are in fact correct. For a Monday departure (to start Wednesday with Tauck) we are back to the $8300+ because of increased pricing for the return trip.

    Follow-up questions:
    1. I cannot find anything regarding the Cloud 9 differences on line.

    Just click on the "Cloud 9" or "Cloud 9 Deluxe" column headings
    2. Tauck promises an airline refund if you take their insurance. Can you book with an agent and have Tauck do air and provide insurance?

    I'm not sure what you are asking. Tauck's insurance will cover you if you book air on your own, either directly or using a TA. I don't know if there is a difference in criteria. You need to read the policy- you must meet the various criteria, e.g. "hospitalization of family member" (we had to use that once with flights we booked ourselves), etc. I believe the whole policy is somewhere on the Tauck site. You might give Tauck a call. When we went in 2015 they would not/could not (?) book ET flights. I don't know if that is still the case.
    3. If we book next August, airline availability will be September at earliest. Does the air get covered if you take the Tauck insurance booking air with them, even if travel agent books the trip?

    I believe so, but the insurance must be booked at the same time the trip is booked- you will pay the depost + insurance at the same time. But just ask Tauck to be sure how it works with a TA. In 8 Tauck trips we have never used a TA- no value added (though some supposedly give small discounts - NOT approved by Tauck) and in fact some have had problems getting info and documents since they all go through the TA. See British's post above.
    We book our trips directly with Tauck and booked our ET flights through their website, paid with AMEX. I only had to call ET once, I had a question about our ticketed names.
    4. Most importantly, it appears a large number of passengers are very unhappy with Ethiopian airlines, with chaotic Addis Ababa airport, changed flights, delays, poor cabin and ticketing service. I am very reluctant to book with them, with the possibility that seems to be frequent that connections will not be made timely.

    We had the same hesitancy. I think most complaints are from people who have flown in coach. I really researched them and we based our decision on the reports of other Tauck travelers (the few that have flown with them and who visit here have had no issues with ET), so we gave them a shot. It worked out great, no issues, nice aircraft*, great service, good food in Business Class. My wife is not the bravest of travelers/flyers, but she said she would not hesitate flying ET again (we are considering flying with them on Taucks Botswana trip in 2019). I don't know if I would ever fly coach with them, or for that matter, that far in coach on any airline. I don't know if you ran across the one review where a (US) traveler was bemoaning the fact that one family allowed their toddler to run up and down the (coach) aisle bare bottomed, without a diaper. It sounded like a grouchy grandma to me.

    * The ET Boeing 777's have 2-3-2 seating but had more leg room in Business than any aircraft we have ever flown. Check out the photos on their website. SeatGuru or such, said they are angle-flat seats. That may have been old news, since our seats were 180° lay-flat. One negative- smallest, coarsest business class pillows we have ever experienced- bring a pillowcase or even an inflatable pillow!

    Check-in at IAD was quick, efficient, and stress-free- separate Cloud 9 line- no one in it, pleasant agent. But, be prepared- I am not saying it was bad and it was definitely NOT chaotic either time, but Addis Abba, which is ET's home base, is still a third world airport, in a third world country, so be prepared for that- for us it was mostly culture shock. ET just finished renovating their Cloud 9 and Sheeba Miles lounges. (I've also heard horror stories about Johannesburg).

    We only had one minor issue- after our 3 hr. layover on the outbound, when it came time for re-screening to go from the main waiting area to another final awaiting transit area (to take a bus to the aircraft), there was a very long line. There was a Cloud 9 sign for what I assume was for a line for Cloud 9 passengers, but no one was stationed there and nobody in line. We told the agent at the head of the adjacent regular line we were Cloud 9, but he just motioned for us to get in his (the only) line. There was also another, shorter, line about 25 yards away for other flights but ending in the same place, but it was moving more slowly. We were probably looking a bit bewildered and were about to pick a line when a nice young lady in ET uniform came up to us and asked if she could help- long story short- she quickly escorted us past the unhelpful agent, right to the scanner, and to the final waiting room! Oh, one more thing- we laugh about this even today! The plane to Arusha, a brand new Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner was parked across the ramp, no jetway, so passengers had to ride a bus (only about 50 yds) to board. As we started to board the bus with everyone else, another agent, said "No, no, you can't board this bus, YOU are CLOUD 9," wait here. Hmmm, ok???? She immediately called on her radio to confirm, and within less than 2 minutes we were boarding our very own Cloud 9 bus! We were the only people on it!!! Also, at the plane, we had our very own, new, large, very wide, canopy-covered boarding ladder- it looked like it was for Air Force One! There might even have been a short stretch of red carpet! There were only 7 of us in Business on the flight to Arusha!

    Our return flights were even easier- Nairobi isn't the best airport either- some work was still being done to repair old fire damage, but all flights leave from here. We waited in a spartan partner lounge for awhile before heading to the gate. This time through, ADD was just another airport- we were old hands now. Flight home was just fine.

    All flights were either on time or early. And, one last thing- take a look at what time you get to Arusha- much nicer getting there at that time than when most other flights arrive.

    But, as they say, you pays your price and takes your chance.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file